thefleck

This has been on my Scottsdale bucket list for a while. Probably the 3rd highest rated public course in AZ depending on the ratings. And I get it. No houses, amazing bunkering and layout, extremely friendly staff and great amenities as you would expect from a Troon course. This is written during the COVID pandemic so my opinion probably isn’t fair and I apologize. Talking to the cart girls, it sounds like a large percentage of the staff was furloughed and that’s a shame.

Pace of play was amazing. I assume it’s usually pretty good based on the distance from Scottsdale and lower population density of golfers down there. Also, it broke 100 degrees this week which is usually good news for pace of play. Finished in 3 hours exactly and I took my time with every shot. Didn’t encounter anyone out there except for a maintenance guy. Saw a red tailed hawk which was pretty special. Beautiful, natural property. A desert links.

Conditioning was poor. Tee boxes need leveling. Had a few muddy bunkers. When you’re serious about your score these things are annoying. But, bunker maintenance is extremely costly and time intensive and they’ve got a ton of bunkers. I get it.

My big pet peeve was the cut on the green side “rough”. The greens are tiny and are clearly designed with punch bowl features that should allow you to use surrounding contours as a backstop. The well-conditioned holes were a blast to play, but I had several balls held up on other holes when they should have rolled back toward the green/hole, based on the contours and green complex design. Like any links, putting from off the green becomes essential because pitching a shot on to a 5-yard-wide green surrounded by bunkers simply isn’t a playable option. Bermuda grass doesn’t help much at all. I simply can’t figure out why the green side “rough” is Bermuda, and moreover why it is cut higher than the fairway, when the course is clearly designed to play like a links course. I found putting to be the only option but also extremely problematic due to various length cuts of the green side rough (inconsistency), and the fact that Bermuda likes to grow in specific but differing directions, making it almost impossible to gauge when the grass is longer than green height. They need to address this. The greens themselves were exceptional, no complaints there.

Conditioning aside, I had a great time and would definitely return. Have yet to find a troon course I haven’t liked, or with employees who weren’t incredible. My wife rode along for free which is what I expect from them, but something I really appreciate. Truly the staff was exceptional and I wish them and the course the best of luck in these dire times.

Played Padre about a year ago, and have been wanting to come back for Ambiente since then. Tis' the season for deals in Scottsdale and I finally pulled the trigger.

My take as a golf course architecture geek:

-Conditions were superb -- tee boxes, greens, and especially fairways. Seems like the location/sandy turf preserves well in the summer here. Best I've seen all summer.
-Layout is fun and linksy. Very unique for the area. Out and back layout with no transition at all at the 10th. No elevated vistas but it feels natural. Could play fast but it doesn't, unfortunately.
-Despite the layout, actual routing is not as good as I thought it would be. Still a lot of distance from green to tee...not sure if it's walkable. Lots of restricted cart areas (GPS), which forced long walking approaches to the green and back. If my wife hadn't been driving/cattying, I would have been worn out in the heat (I'm in my 30's). Contrast this to Papago or Talking Stick where you can essentially drive the cart directly to your ball around every green. I find that much more efficient in the summer and "walkable" in season.
-Pace of play was miserable. At this time of year in the weekday, at mid day, I've become used to having courses to myself. I will play through if I have to. Today, I encountered quite a few slow foursomes of elderly and distinguished character. Got tired of playing through. Still, we finished in about 4 hours. That's just the sort of clientele this place attracts...not for the weekday soloists apparently.
-I'll add that the marshal was attentive, charming and wonderful, but could focus more on pace of play and less on chatting it up. I struggled to graciously end a conversation with him as the solo party behind me and I waited on 17th tee, both of us backed up with the 4ball ahead wandering around in the fairway for at least 20 minutes.
-Ladies tees looked thoughtful and gettable without a ton of forced carries. Looked like a good family course. Couldn't drag the wife out into the heat to confirm.
-Amenities are superb, up there with Troon.

Conclusion: Beautiful and unique scottsdale links-style course with an almost-walkable layout, impecable conditions, and cult local retiree following, which hinders efficient play. Would return with a 4 some.

This is a hard one. I like Arnie. I love the staff here. And, the ownership seems to be doing a lot of investing and making some smart decisions. This place has more people behind the desk and bar and in the restaurant than most courses in Scottsdale. Must be a local hangout. And I love the new Mulligan 9. Clubhouse and driving range is better than expected and reminds me a lot of Legacy.

I digress — the 18 is probably my least favorite course in Scottsdale. The course routing is a nightmare, and kind of a deal-breaker for me. Extremely narrow holes lined directly by houses throughout. And LONG drives between holes...imagine 1/2 mile.. Not remotely walkable. And, It’s easy to get lost too. The cart paths/sidewalks have arrows to guide you but they are very old and faded — And necessary at some turns. I wound up on a few wrong tees.

This affects playability. The most space on the property is occupied by water which doesn’t add to any width or options of play, but makes for at least 5 island style greens, if you enjoy losing balls.

Maintenance here is fantastic. Conditions for golf absolutely sucked.

I saw a TON of workers out there, at least 15 throughout the course — more than anywhere else I’ve been this summer and I’ve been almost everywhere. Unfortunately they are keeping it immaculately maintained to horrific golfing conditions. Tee boxes are manicured but grass is extremely long. They also need serious leveling.

Fairways were mowed but lengths were inconsistent and super tight around the greens, and deep in the fairways. I actually lost a ball on the 6th fairway after hitting one of the longest and straightest drives of my life. I made birdie and was an inch from an eagle, but had to drop a ball for my approach after scouring the fairway for my drive. I suspect one of the mud piles on the left sucked it up. Otherwise the fairway was beautiful.

Forget a running approach. You won’t get any roll here. Every shot is all carry. Over-watered and cut too long. Are they keeping the conditions like this to preserve all the houses that are so close to the holes? I think there would be too much property damage if the ball rolled here like it does at We Ko Pa or Talking Stick.

With respect to design, the course is very 60’s. Lots of strategy but no width or options. Some of the holes are comical, like the 16th, which I suspect is the hardest hole in Scottsdale and makes no sense from a modern architectural perspective. They need to remove a bunker, or some trees, or add some width to the long right miss off the tee. The left bunker is insane given that it demands a 160 yard carry over water. It’s sad but true: courses like this aren’t being built anymore.

On a positive note, pace of play is always fantastic here. At least when you play in the afternoon. Got through in 2:10! That might be a personal best! And for the price, it’s still very friendly and accessible golf, despite the shortcomings.

Great layout, one of my favorites in Phoenix/Scottsdale. Tough course, long par 3s. Definitely a walkable/well designed routing. No concrete cart paths gives a great natural feel to the place. The red rock views are iconic. Green and fairway conditions were excellent. Service was exceptional A couple tee boxes could use leveling and closer trimming. No big elevated tee shots or huge forced carries, but lots of rolling elevation changes that kept the course interesting. Overall one of the best quality and highest value rounds I've had in the area. Will be returning.

Awesome course. Always fun and interesting to play. Some of the holes are very clever and memorable. No houses around, and only native vegetation (no palm trees) = authentic and pleasant desert golf. The only thing this course lacks is dramatic elevated tees, but that's probably the only thing. Greens were a little dried out the day I played, otherwise conditions were great.

First time playing here and was really impressed overall. Staff was very courteous and let me play by myself in the afternoon. Ended up paying only about $25 with the summer rate. This place has amazing (unbeatable?) value. They keep it in amazing shape too. Most of the holes were absolutely immaculate. Unfortunately the grounds crew was out there on several holes and it can get distracting when they drive so close. They didn't have much awareness but sure are doing a great job haha. Greens were rolling super fast. Had quite a few memorable holes. Clubhouse is also very visually impressive and the history of the location is interesting. The course doesn't have mindblowing panoramas but it does have a bunch of holes with mountain vistas. The real charm comes from the prestine condition, interesting holes, and classic desert ranch feel. It kind of feels like a "Grayhawk South". Will definitely return here and check out Raven as well.

First time playing at Talking Stick. Played South/Piipaash for around $40, great summer deal. Was surprised by how nice the course is and the fun layout. Greens, fairways, and tee boxes were all in great shape. Unfortunately the bunkers basically don't have sand and are filled with packed dirt. I know bunkers are hard to maintain so I usually don't complain, but the complete lack of sand at Talking Stick makes them almost impossible to play because most of the greenside bunkers have high overhanging brims. After a 6-shot bunker experience we started taking a drop for all bunker play. This really changed the feel of the game and was pretty sad given the quality of the course. It would be a favorite place for me as I live so close.

Practice area and facility is top notch. Was suprised. Pace of play was rather slow, and this seems to be a constant theme in the reviews. Was playing in a two-some and we got through in just over 4.5 hours, waiting at every tee. Not sure if they need to space out the tee times more or what.

Will probably return to give it a second chance because this place is so convenient for me, and has a uniquely fun/playable desert layout. Please work on the bunkers and update the public so we know!